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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Damn, i LOVE Sierra Nevada! You just named one of my favorite all time beers!! Are you SURE you're a conservative? ;-)

Kudos to all you said...I always welcome respectful differences of opinion and I couldn't agree more that Olberman and Co. are just as guilty as Hannity and such for masquerading as journalists when all they're really doing is spewing a well-planned invective for enterianment purposes and most of all... ratings.

Those who can forumlate their own opinion rather than just parroting back what others tell them are A-OK in my book.

thanks for the exchange...and long live Sierra Nevada!

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"I couldn't agree more that Olberman and Co. are just as guilty as Hannity and such for masquerading as journalists when all they're really doing is spewing a well-planned invective for enterianment purposes and most of all... ratings."

I usually agree with everything grendelschoice but Olberman and his son Rachael don't masquerade as journalists, esp the sportcaster Olberman.

The difference between them and Fixed & friends is that Olberman's team actually tells the truth and backs it up with facts and videotape!

Fox News, like the big fat liar himself, can't and won't resort to facts, and instead manipulates the emotions of the weak minded. Death panel lies, "Don't meddle with our patriotic music" and on and on.

Glen Beck is barely holding on to sanity.

The whole thing is just sad. It's like the high school English books by Huxley and Orwell are literally true!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

spaced--

i think at the beginning what you say about Keith may have been true...but I noticed as his show became more popular and it was clear it was b/c he was calling out O'Reilley for his lies (admirable) it then resorted to hyperbole to keep the momentum going.

There were a number of instances I can recall in which Olbermann started to go out of his way to defend certain failings of Obama's re: un-kept promises from the campaign Obama vs. president Obama and it was sad to see the same kind of stretching of the truth to defend msnbc's chosen favorite, rather than calling him out.

For my money the very best news to watch (and this says a lot about the state of cable/network news today) is Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. His team scours every videotape from weeks before to years prior to point out clear hypocrisies of both the left and right and presents them in clear ways that are undisputable to anyone with an objective mind (plus they;re funny as hell.)

My favorite recently was when he showed a clip of O'Reilly saying "Here at Fox we don't call the tea party or health care town meeting protesters 'loons' like other networks do...we recognize their right to protest"....then he showed a clip from 2004 of people protesting the Iraq War in which O'Reilly says "These people are clearly loons."

So yes, I understand that the FIXed news empire is a dangerous beast--my concern is that I don't want Olbermann and others to BECOME a left-leaninbg version of the same and can't give him a pass just b/c I happen to agree w/his political philosophy.

It's the same reason I was outraged at liberals who made signs of Bush w/a Hitler moustache. That kind of hyperbole (much as I despise Bush) is actually incredibly disrespectful to the millions who perished under Hitler's Holocaust and diminishes the extreme evil that was the Nazi regime. It also hurts the credibility of more reasonable and thoughtful people on the left.

The idiots who call Obama "Hitler" and a "fascist" are even more out of whack, but the principle remains the same. Just as I reject torture of prisoners held by the US b/c I don't want our country to be as evil as those who resort to terror, I don't want to use the more deplorable tactics of the hard right to "fight fire with fire" if you know what I mean.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"So yes, I understand that the FIXed news empire is a dangerous beast--my concern is that I don't want Olbermann and others to BECOME a left-leaninbg version of the same and can't give him a pass just b/c I happen to agree w/his political philosophy."

Yeah no passes for being a Democrat.

Both Stewart and Colbert are quite funny and informative.

Lately Olbermann and Maddow have both been openly sarcastic and questioning of Obama/Emmanuel/Clinton policies.

They've questioned why Obama lacks leadership and why he's backed out on campaign promises to please a few conservatives, even pointing out that he's in danger of losing support for a 2nd term.


"It's the same reason I was outraged at liberals who made signs of Bush w/a Hitler moustache."

Me not so much. Bush/Cheney didn't AIM HIGH, even for "friends." The unaccountability and laxity putting oil and vacations above all else, let a serious hole in defense. So serious in fact that you have to wonder how bin Laden got intel on which day US air defenses were standing down for exercises. Amazingly the Bush/Cheney-oriented Project for a New American Century got just what it wanted -- a new Pearl Harbor by hook or by crook.

Then the closely following, the Patriot Act, a US Army-sourced anthrax attack on the opposition, lies on weapons of mass destruction, etc. Those weapons were more likely to be found under Bush's podium than Iraq after how many years of UN-US inspection and espionage.

All in all, the neocon power play for "full spectrum dominance" over the whole world was a costly move that failed miserably.

ok so I like 1985 and not just for The Beam space, it's back to Black Peter> Ashes, Ashes on
http://www.archive.org/details/gd85-09-12.sbd.barbella.11803.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 7:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Ok now I'm talking to myself...

The odd thing is that there are so many smart people and even more people with goodwill. Hell, the US is on top of the world having nearly invented the modern world, and yet going to waste. And at a time when the species as a whole is facing enormous challenges!

He did pick JP Holdren great and Van Jones is fine in a minor role, but why Obama wouldn't pick economic advisors like Joseph Stiglitz and Paul Krugman, or ones listed by Huffington Post recently as ones who saw it coming is beyond me. HP: http://tinyurl.com/lvy3r8

Did Bush and Cheney invite environmentalists of any kind to oil policy planning meetings? Hardly, and that was before they could really scare people.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 8:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Ya know I gotta pick up on this again cause as far as I'm cocerned your preaching to the choir I agree w/ everything you said about Olbermann and Rachael. I was loyal to the point when Keith and Rachael told the truth about issues, the war and the decisions that led to those two conflicts. If Fixed News is going to be provocative and inflamatory with partisan rethoric then by all means lets have MSNBC cloud the issues for the right. They seem to want to pull the country just as hard and ridiculous to the left. Its a wonder any working stiff ,self employed, armed service memeber ( ...we're all confused...) to wonder what the hell is going on in that Sodom and Gomorrah we call our nations capital

...You can call this song the United States Blues...

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"lets have MSNBC cloud the issues for the right. They seem to want to pull the country just as hard and ridiculous to the left."

Telling the truth clarifies not clouds!

That's not something you can back up with facts. MSNBC is not a leftist outfit. 2 shows that counter RNC/Fox talking points with truthful facts that can fit in short segments is in no "pulling" the country hard to the left.

That's totally ridiculous, although they and Stewart and Colbert have some influence on the younger crowd.

I dare you to take issue with any specific facts on the Olberman or Maddow show -- you'll only catch small things. You'll have to go to Fox for The Big Lie and to ABC, NBC, and CBS (and the NYT and WPost) for slick spins.

Yes, summertime has come and gone, my oh my. I got mine and you got yours, but US we can't seem to keep our hands off other's stash.

We have no excuse for our karma because we know these words to all these songs by heart! We ignore them at our peril. If it's said, look out the saints are comin' through, and men gonna light my way. Who is ME?

Even the messiah doesn't have a messiah complex.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 5, 2009 12:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I'll be on vacation soon, so the noise level will be better for a some weeks!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 5, 2009 5:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

spaced--

before you go on vaca, just know I enjoy having someone on this forum who's even to the left of ME. I didn't think that was possible ;-)

I don't take issue w/most of what you said, and as I've said many times before here, the disastrous realm of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Rove years will have repurcussions for years and years to come. Obama inherets a bigger pile of crap than you could fit in a Rhino and the hard right acts as if it all cropped up in the last 6 months.

Still...I draw the line at the Hitler=Bush crowd. We make such false comparisons at our peril. We cannot ignore the history of what really happened under the Nazis. last time I checked Bush and Cheney weren't rounding up millions and sticking them into ovens and gas chambers (detention centers in Cuba without formal charges, yes...and commiting acts of torture that the U.S. once prosecuted the Japanese for doing in WWII...yes...and that's horrible....but it still does not rise to the level of Hitler.)

There are degrees of evil in the world. Hitler's was intentional and with clear intent to eliminate an entire population of people. Bush and Cheney's was born more of hubris and ignorance and fear. Big difference, and we need to recognize it.

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 6, 2009 5:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Grandelchoice: ask australian journalist Jane Burgermeister if she thinks Obama/cheney not worse than hitler soon! jmburgermeister@gmail.com

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 5, 2009 4:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Yes, I agree. WWII was a massive disaster. More devastating than the Mongols?

I'm always wary of defensive reactions against the use of Hitler and the Holocaust. There were many more people effected than one ethnic group, many of which have used the disaster for personal and propaganda gains. See http://tinyurl.com/m2lt2r.

It's a nasty world on one level, even in Biblical history where the Jews themselves committed similar holocausts.

Of course, you right despite their sympathies with Hitler, the right wing here have not done those things lately -- umm mass genocide and chattel slavery are kinda Nazi, nest pas? Though they have sponsored similar things or allied themselves with perps across the world for decades. I guess I should feel blessed I haven't had to face that sort of thing myself.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 5, 2009 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Amen

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 5, 2009 4:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

"MSNBC They seem to want to pull the country just as hard and ridiculous to the left."

Bull....

Didn't get the lickin's that the other ones had?

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 5, 2009 8:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPankJ0TytY

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 6, 2009 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvfq4dZOTNs

I got to see the Pretenders as opening acts 2 times, for The Who in 1980 or so and for U2 in 1987.

It's great that Rush Limbagh is also an animal right's wacko and supports PETA.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 6, 2009 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-7Mp41E5sw
I can dig it SF seen the who in 82 at the Silverdome and in 89 at old cleve muni stad,my u2 show in 85 at frankfurt germ. did'nt turn out to well was my first time in a jail and the fact it being german made the exp. all the more hideous. I figuured limbaugh to be the type to step on little puppies heads maybe only black ones,
you may have misunderstood my intent regarding MSNBC Ive been a loyal veiwer of Countdown since its beginning in 2000 and have no intention of changing my veiwing habits any time soon, just getting burnt on trying to always carry the water for the Dems w/ my family and everyother member of the lunatic fringe that wants to exspouse their veiws my way Now this huge uproar about Barack talking to students as if thats never been done before oy Blue has always been my fav color and Pete T. always my fav artist none of that will ever change. Dig this vid if you can peace















































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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 6, 2009 10:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Chrissie Hynde makes Rush Limbaugh pay

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5923659/really_randoms_chrissie_hynde_ricky_martin_jimmy_page

BTW, while I like Olberman I do prefer to record the program, and just watch the 3rd of it that has actual news and analysis. A DVR also make for quicker work with The Daily Show and Colbert.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 5, 2009 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Well, I hope you realize that we have tallied up the scores and you are right there with me, Rob, UU, and vebl. Hope you like the company--I think having a handful of Gandhis around is a good thing.

Have a great Labor Day weekend, Hipster!

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Poster: angular Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

All I have to say to that is....I respect your opinion and right to make it. Thank God that we live in a country where we can all speak what is in our hearts. And on the positive side is that you don't have to be out of earshot to say it!

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Poster: angular Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

My true hope is that we get a third party in this to divide all the BS. That and that cold weather comes soon for the enjoyment of Sierra Nevada Porter!

Great giva and take with the postings.